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Low mortgage charges, sneaky homebuying methods, and entering into (and out of) debt, Lindsey Iskierka‘s story has all of it. Because the lead actual property agent on the SoCal David Greene staff, Lindsey is within the thick of actual property day in and day trip. However she’s not simply serving to others purchase and promote properties, she additionally boasts a decent rental property portfolio, with 4 items sprawled out throughout the states in three utterly completely different markets. And regardless that Lindsey is in the true property sport now, it wasn’t at all times this manner.
Again in 2015, Lindsey wasn’t making a lot after getting her grad diploma. Along with her husband involved in actual property, they determined to go to a seminar, which later changed into a $40K debt they needed to climb their manner out of. Lindsey determined to get her actual property license to not solely assist repay this debt however save sufficient to purchase their first residence—a home hack in Lengthy Seaside. It didn’t take lengthy for the house to understand, leaving Lindsey and her husband with a tough selection—promote or refi the property.
We received’t spoil the story, however her selection allowed her to purchase a number of different items throughout the nation, which has now turn out to be a portfolio of short-term and medium-term leases. Lindsey additionally provides some killer recommendation on how first-time homebuyers and traders can snag rock-bottom mortgage charges in 2023. We’re speaking two p.c decrease than as we speak’s charge! If you wish to hear how one can lock in a charge under 5 p.c, we propose you stick round!
Ashley:
That is Actual Property Rookie, episode 247.
Lindsey:
And there’s a program that was not too long ago launched referred to as the 2-1 buydown. It’s not an adjustable charge mortgage. Mainly, it’s saying, “Hey, charges as we speak are 6%,” which do 6% for simple math. For the primary 12 months that you just personal the property, you’re going to have 4% rate of interest. The second 12 months you personal the property, you’re at a 5% rate of interest. 12 months three, you go to six%. There’s no pre-payment penalty and it’s not an adjustable charge the place you’re topic to the market charge at the moment. So in three years, if charges are 10%, 11%, 12%, we are able to’t even fathom that, proper? However charges have been there.
Ashley:
My title is Ashley Kehr and I’m right here with my co-host Tony Robinson.
Tony:
And welcome to the Actual Property Rookie Podcast, the place each week, twice every week, we’ll convey you the inspiration, motivation, and tales you should hear to kickstart your investing journey. And I wish to begin off as we speak’s episode by shouting out Nick Halden 5621, who left us a five-star assessment on Apple Podcasts. Nick mentioned, “I not too long ago began listening to podcasts and I actually like the best way each of you conduct the present, the best way you ask questions, the best way you share your experiences, it actually provides lots of perception and information to somebody like me who’s planning to purchase his first funding property. Sustain the nice work.” Nick Halden, we recognize you, brother.
And in the event you’re listening to the present and you haven’t but left us an trustworthy score and assessment, please do on Apple, Spotify, no matter platform information you’re listening to. The extra opinions we get, the extra people we can assist. And serving to people is what we do round Isn’t that proper, Ashley?
Ashley:
Sure, it’s. And talking of all of our fantastic listeners, particularly those that go away us five-star opinions, we’re going to be in Denver on February twenty third, with nearly the entire podcast host from each greater pockets podcasts, and we’re going to be having a meetup in Denver. So be sure you guys go to larger pockets.com/occasions to take a look at what now we have in retailer for you in Denver. And in the event you guys need us to return to your metropolis, ship a DM to the Greater Pockets Instagram account, or to myself or Tony at Wealth Agency Leases or at TonyJRobinson and tell us the place you guys need us to return.
Tony:
Effectively as we speak we’ve acquired a tremendous episode. We now have somebody who’s considerably related to the Greater Pockets ecosystem. We acquired Lindsey Iskierka and he or she works with David Greene. A few of you guys could know that title from the opposite Greater Pockets Actual Property podcast. However Lindsey comes on, and he or she’s only a wealth of data, each as an investor and as an agent. And we speak about each side of that equation as we undergo the episode.
Ashley:
A few of my favourite classes and takeaway from this episode are speaking about completely different markets, 1031 exchanges, after which additionally the present market, which we had this drastic change from excessive housing pricing, low rates of interest, and now it has shifted to excessive rates of interest and decrease costs. And Lindsey, I believe explains why this truly might be a bonus to you as an investor and only a purchaser on this market as we speak.
Lindsey, welcome to the present. Thanks a lot for becoming a member of us. Are you able to begin off telling us a bit bit about your self and the way you bought began in actual property?
Lindsey:
Yeah, joyful to. First off, thanks for having me. It’s a pleasure to lastly speak to you guys and join right here. So my title is Lindsey Iskierka and I’ve been in actual property since 2015, acquired my actual property license, purchased my first funding property in 2016 and since about Could 2021, I’ve served as David’s accomplice and lead actual property agent for the Southern California actual property gross sales staff. So, assist traders purchase, promote, make investments, home hack, short-term leases, mid-term leases, long-term leases, we do all of it. And actual property’s my life and I like what I do.
Ashley:
And that’s the David, David Greene that you’re speaking about.
Lindsey:
Completely proper. For clarification
Ashley:
You in all probability don’t must say his final title, however simply to make clear. So Lindsey, if you acquired your license, this was earlier than you truly began investing then,. That got here first?
Lindsey:
Totally after I knew I needed to put money into actual property, however we simply didn’t get began fairly but. However I’ve an fascinating story as to how I even acquired into it and I’ll in all probability go into that, but-
Ashley:
Let’s hear that proper now. I might love to listen to it.
Lindsey:
So I don’t suggest my begin to actual property to anyone, however it’s my story and right here we go. So after grad college, I met my now husband and he had an curiosity in actual property investing. Actual property was not on my radar. Nobody in my household put money into actual property, owns properties. I’ve one reminiscence of my mother and father shopping for a home after I was seven and so they nonetheless reside in that home as we speak. Actual property simply actually wasn’t even on my radar or a wealth constructing technique I had heard of. After grad college, I used to be making 14 bucks an hour, considering there’s acquired to be a greater manner right here. And I met my husband. And on the time, he had an curiosity in actual property investing however hadn’t gotten storage but. [inaudible 00:05:02] after all. After which we went to a type of free seminars that’s supposed to show you all the things you should learn about actual property investing.
One factor led to a different. Subsequent factor we all know, we have been $40,000 in debt. We had purchased a type of guru applications. And whereas I’m grateful for that have and what it made me do, it was, they promise you the world, they promise you they’re going to show you all the things you should know. And in actuality, it wasn’t. We have been simply up to now again by way of our objective. So we needed to get actual and paid this debt off. And a manner that we determined to try this, moved in with my grandmother. We rented a room from her for a 12 months and a half. And so we acquired married throughout that point. So newlyweds going again to grandma’s home, you possibly can think about.
However we had a objective in thoughts, and I acquired my actual property license at the moment. So, then inside a 12 months we have been in a position to repay that $40,000 in debt and save up reserves to purchase our first home hack. And so, whereas I don’t suggest these applications to anybody, it served its function for our story and I’m truly actually grateful for that have. I don’t know if I might be the place I’m as we speak if we didn’t endure that. In order that’s how I acquired began. And so getting my license was a manner to assist repay debt. However I had grinded, I labored actually, actually arduous, constructed my enterprise over 5 years earlier than assembly David Greene. And in order that was how we acquired began.
Tony:
So Lindsey, first thanks for sharing the arduous a part of your journey by way of getting began. And an analogous factor in my journey as properly the place my accomplice and I, we spent not fairly $40,000, we spent $20,000 on a program like that. This system was extra so centered on educating you learn how to turn out to be an condo syndicator, do industrial actual property. And after we, joined, we did zero industrial offers. And I at all times suppose, man, was it a waste of $20,000? However by way of that program, I turned actually good mates with the man who launched me to brief time period leases. And it’s like, had I not executed that program, would I’ve discovered this asset class? Would our portfolio individuals we’re at as we speak? Would I even be on this podcast?
Regardless that it’s at all times tremendous crappy to must undergo these conditions, it’s like if you will discover that silver lining and use that as your motivation to maintain going forth, and there’s possibly nonetheless some worth in that. So I simply wish to know, how did you not get discouraged? You invested all this cash, you had these huge desires of all the things that was going to occur, didn’t prove the best way you needed to, you moved again in along with your grandparents, it’s nearly like a worst case situation. So how did you, even with all that occurred, keep motivated to proceed transferring ahead and actually nonetheless take your begin in actual property investing?
Lindsey:
Actually good query. I believe we had a robust why. We have been already planning our characteristic collectively and I believed, “Okay, what I’m uncovered to, it is sensible.” I do know this will work and this wasn’t it, however right here’s what we’re going to do. And once we lived in southern California, so it’s very tough, very costly market to start out investing. And we thought, “Okay, if we’re going to personal a house, now we have to deal with hack.” There’s actually no different approach to get began. And we simply had a robust sufficient conviction that he and I can do it collectively. This program wasn’t what we hoped it could be, however such as you mentioned, I did find yourself having some relationships with people who I don’t know if I might have if I didn’t undergo that program. And alternatives got here from there and it gave me hope that there’s a greater manner and I knew this might work and I simply hadn’t discovered it but.
So put my head down, I noticed, and I fell in love with actual property. That was one other factor too. I beloved it. And that stage solely grew stronger as I noticed the potential for it. So I knew the trail that we have been happening earlier than was not the correct path, and we hit a velocity bump right here, however what can I study from this? I might argue that is also what makes a profitable investor. Since you’re going to make unhealthy selections, you’re going to make unhealthy selections otherwise you’re going to must pivot and say, That didn’t work. Now what.” However you possibly can at all times discover the lesson and the blessing in all the things. So we’re blessed that we additionally have been put ready as a more recent couple to have conversations about cash. We needed to have actual talks about how we’re going to repay this debt, what are we going to do? How are we going to return collectively and do it?
So talks about cash weren’t taboo to us, it wasn’t a combating level, it wasn’t a tough level for us. And I’m grateful for that very early on. So, a number of combos and simply his assist. He was so supportive of me and he believed in me that I might do that. As a result of he was in legislation enforcement, and so he was actually the regular, W2, not many versatile hours. I had extra versatile hours and I used to be set off to enter this actual property factor. And he had such perception in me that I believed, I’ve no different selection. I’ve to make this work. So how am I going to make this work? And in the end, we knew home hacking can be one of the best ways to get began. And in paying off that debt, I constructed a fairly good actual property enterprise for my first 12 months being an agent. So it simply all began to return along with constant motion.
Tony:
I like your story up to now, Lindsey, and I can simply see the motivation coming off your face, however I wish to, earlier than we go too far, I simply wish to, in the event you can let the listeners know what does your portfolio appear to be as we speak? What number of items do you might have? The place are these items unfold out? As a result of lots of actual property brokers, regardless that they may do a ton of transactions a 12 months as an actual property agent, they may personal zero actual property themselves.
Lindsey:
Sure. However they’re investor pleasant, proper?
Tony:
However they’re investor pleasant. So what does your portfolio appear to be as we speak?
Lindsey:
Positive. So now we have offered a number of of our homes this 12 months. We’re in the midst of our second 1031 change proper now. However because it stands as we speak, we personal 4 properties. Two of these are short-term leases. One is a long-term rental that we’re truly going to start out renovating and turning it right into a midterm rental for higher money stream. After which now we have a main. In order that’s the place it’s proper now. However we’re actively shopping for, in search of extra offers and actually needed to, in all probability greater than double that subsequent 12 months.
Ashley:
Lindsey, are you able to clarify actual fast what a 1031 change is?
Lindsey:
Completely. So 1031 change, it’s a tax deferring technique for actual property traders. So anytime you promote a property, it’s an funding property, that means non-owner occupied, you don’t reside in it, you’re a topic to capital good points tax. So what traders do, and it’s an effective way to scale a portfolio, is you’re taking the earnings from promoting that property, you instantly roll all these proceeds into the acquisition of one other property. And so that you keep away from the capital good points tax.
And it’s an effective way to scale. It’s an effective way to purchase an even bigger asset or get into a brand new asset class and it’s utilized by traders to scale a portfolio extra faster and also you keep away from taxes. So, it’s our second one which we’re doing. First one labored out properly too. That was from our home hack that we did. And if you wish to do a 1031 change or serious about doing it, you should be sure you have a QI, certified middleman, that can assist you with that transaction. Actually essential piece of the puzzle. After which an agent that is aware of what that’s and is aware of what is required if you get into escrow to ensure that it truly goes by way of. And it can save you tens of 1000’s of {dollars} in taxes in the event you do that accurately.
Ashley:
Lindsey, I wish to speak about and begin entering into a few of your offers. So what markets are you presently investing in for these properties that you’ve got?
Lindsey:
So personally, our first home hack was in Lengthy Seaside, California. So coastal city in southern LA County. Proper on the border of LA Orange and County proper there. That’s the place I began. After which we thought it was a good suggestion to 1031 change that property into three homes within the Midwest. And people cities that we invested in have been Kansas Metropolis, Missouri, Birmingham, Alabama. And so we have been in these two markets for a bit bit. We additionally now personal a short-term rental in Kalispell, Montana. It’s proper close to Glacier Nationwide Park. I personally love nationwide parks for brief time period leases. I simply suppose it’s at all times going to be a market or a key element of the market that I wish to select for my very own investments. So now we have that, however we nonetheless personal one property in Kansas Metropolis, Missouri. After which we’ve offered the opposite ones. And I personal once more in Joshua Tree, is my different short-term rental.
Ashley:
With the 1031 change, so if you offered that one property, you purchased these three with the funds from that first property. So what made you determine to, how did you even start to seek out these three different markets? Are you able to stroll us by way of that course of?
Lindsey:
I can, undoubtedly. So it was an fascinating time in our life. So I might’ve home hacked longer. And that’s one thing that possibly we’ll get into in a bit bit as properly. Our household was rising, we have been anticipating [inaudible 00:13:45] and I believed we’re out of area the place we presently are at. And so we moved out of our first home hack, rented it out. It was money flowing, however it wanted some main repairs. We didn’t have the capital on the time to interchange each roofs and redo the plumbing. It wanted lots of work. However we had fairness and we thought, okay, we wish to scale. How can we make this property work for us? A cash-out refinance didn’t work. We did a VA zero-down mortgage on it, so only a [inaudible 00:14:13] and money out refinance. Finally, simply actually didn’t go away us with sufficient fairness to actually do a lot with. The one choice was to promote it.
And I needed to maintain that property, however simply on the time we needed to decide. Made sense to promote it. Whenever you do a 1031 change, you might have a really fast timeline by way of when you must establish the properties that you just’re going to purchase. On the time that we have been doing this, I had a new child and an 18-month-old and didn’t actually have a ton of vitality or information about different markets the place I might handle renovations, I might do the entire completely different aspects of shopping for a number of properties. So we turned to turnkey. We’ve been Greater Pockets listeners for a few years already. I’ve been listening to Greater Pockets since 2015. So we had heard about turnkey investments, the professionals and cons. At the moment, turnkey properties made probably the most sense for us in that life stage. We have been in a position to see the properties on a spreadsheet and say, okay, the place’s one of the best ROI? What are one of the best neighborhoods which are out there that we are able to establish inside that 45-day interval to fulfill the objective that we needed to have for the 1031 change to undergo?
So to not get too sophisticated with 1031 exchanges, you must meet a sure property worth restrict and also you additionally must breach your correct mortgage quantity restrict. So all of the items of the puzzle made it in order that we have been turnkey properties and what out there stock that they had for us to fulfill these necessities. We selected Kansas Metropolis, Missouri as a result of my husband’s sister truly was in medical college in Kansas Metropolis, Missouri. And she or he was in a position to inform us in these suburbs of Kansas Metropolis the place the higher areas have been. She mentioned, “Oh, you wish to go over right here, go over right here, keep away from this space.” Thought nice. After which Birmingham, Alabama truly had some actually nice ROIs in response to the spreadsheet we’re it. It was proper subsequent to downtown Birmingham. That was one of the best performing property that we had. So it was on a whim. We knew we needed Kansas Metropolis out of the alternatives that we had primarily based on the boots on the bottom information that we had entry to. However apart from that, it was simply, “This’ll work, this’ll work.” We now have to decide on the markets.
Tony:
Lindsey, I simply wish to circle again actually shortly on that call you made about refinancing versus promoting the property. You mentioned that doing a refinance, you wouldn’t be capable of faucet into the entire fairness. Are you able to simply elaborate on what you imply by that? Why can’t you entry the entire fairness in a cash-out refinance?
Lindsey:
So we have been going to do a cash-out refinance, we might solely pull out 70% of the LTV. On the time, we had about, or that’s loaned to worth. So we had purchased the property for 750 in 2016. By the point it hit 2018, early 2019, it was price 950. So we had 200,000 inequity. And if we’re going to do a cash-out refinance after doing all the maths, we have been solely left with $65,000, $70,000 that we might truly put in direction of a purchase order of one other property as a result of we put zero down.
So when you might have fairness, you must additionally take into consideration how a lot did I put into the deal? And with this one, since we didn’t have any, it actually ate away at that plus. So we have been doing the maths, it didn’t make sense for us to let this property go and we actually couldn’t do way more to it. And we had some arduous tenants that gave us the concept that, let’s simply eliminate this one. It’s served as function, let’s transfer on. So if we have been refinance, we had fantastic tenants, it may need been a unique story, however nonetheless, the cash that we had entry to after the refinance, was not sufficient for us to really feel like we might repair up the property to carry onto it long run and to scale.
Ashley:
I believe that was an important rationalization as a result of I believe we get lots of questions like that and we see individuals publish within the Actual Property Rookie Fb group as to listed here are my two choices, which one ought to I do? And I believe you probably did, the factor that everyone ought to take away from that is, you ran the numbers on each, what’s going to, the end result, in the event you go both path, what are you going to be left with?
So, if you’re going, say you might have this quantity of capital out there, are you going to place all of it into one home? Are you going to unfold it out over a number of homes? We’ll use these eventualities and run the numbers, and what’s it going to appear to be in a 12 months? What’s it going to appear to be in 5 years? And that’s what you probably did with both refinancing or promoting and also you regarded, what capital do you might have left and what are you able to do with it? So I believe that was an ideal instance of how working the numbers and simply doing that evaluation on these eventualities as an alternative of similar to, eeny, meeny, miny, moe, catch tiger by the toe, I’m going to go refinance.
Lindsey:
We needed to. Humorous factor too is, that is one thing to notice is that at the moment we questioned if we have been on the high of the market. We had $200,000 in fairness as new traders. That was fairly enticing. And we thought, gosh, what if the values do go down? That is in 2018, early 2019, pre pandemic. We thought we have been on the high of the market or there was chatter about that. So I needed to take that into consideration. If we don’t promote it and I refinance, can we make these repairs on the property, have it nonetheless money stream? As a result of we had an important rate of interest, and charges have been up at that time. So can we make this work? And in the end, it simply didn’t. And we thought, “Hey, now we have to make a transfer right here. Listed here are the choices that now we have.”
So we no less than made a transfer. And I believe that’s one thing I actually need the rookies on right here to concentrate to is, taking motion, regardless that it’s not the best possible motion, it’s higher than not taking any motion in any respect. I believe persons are so afraid of creating a mistake and that’s inevitable. You’re going to make some errors and that’s okay. However the essential level is to take constant motion with the out there data that you’ve got at hand along with your trusted staff, your advisors, and transfer the needle ahead, nevertheless that will look in that scenario.
Ashley:
You hit it proper on Lindsey, that, so centered on making the correct resolution. However typically both resolution can work out for you. Don’t get so centered on maximizing the money stream. That’s why there’s extra offers to be executed, particularly your first deal. Don’t waste time truly taking motion by entering into that evaluation paralysis of what’s one of the best ways to do that? I wish to maximize and pinch each single penny, however simply getting began, that’s going to provide the momentum to go and provides extra offers. And that’s going to finish up providing you with a greater return beginning now than ready till you’ve lastly determined that is the route you’re going to take.
Lindsey:
Now you possibly can now not afford that property.
Ashley:
Yeah, that’s an important level
Lindsey:
Since you waited to lengthy.
Ashley:
And the way you have been speaking in regards to the market, the way you have been considering possibly it’s the highest of the market, we should always promote it now too, is one thing if, you went and refinanced and also you pulled out that fairness after which rapidly values did drop, however one thing comes up the place now you do must exit the property and now it’s not price what you had drawn out in fairness too. So there’s at all times that threat and that’s one thing, guys did an important job of foreseeing if these issues have been to occur together with working the numbers too.
Lindsey:
Thanks for that.
Tony:
Lindsey, you additionally talked about that a part of the explanation you offered was due to the, not points, however possibly the tenants weren’t your splendid tenant. Had been you self-managing this property or what did that relationship appear to be with these tenants?
Lindsey:
Ooh, actually good query. So partly sure, we did a property administration for the again home. So simply to present you a fast format, it was a entrance home, a bit craftsman home within the entrance that we lived in. There was a duplex within the again, the duplex within the again had units of tenants and we had property administration for that. A part of it was as a result of, like I mentioned, my husband was in legislation enforcement, he needed security, he needed individuals to not hassle us if that they had issues, they need us to see us because the unhealthy guys. We needed to behave like, “Hey, we’re tenants too. You go speak to the property supervisor and never suppose that we’re those elevating lease.”
Tony:
They didn’t even know that you just guys have been the homeowners. No.
Lindsey:
Oh wow. The primary set of tenants did, as a result of they noticed us transferring.
Tony:
In order that they’re transferring in, you’re like, man, these landlords, they type of suck guys, be careful for them.
Lindsey:
I do know. [inaudible 00:22:18].
We needed to play it up and it labored. As a result of we have been the identical age group, roughly, and so they believed it. And it wasn’t till we had a predominant waterline backup that one in all my tenants noticed me strolling the property with a contractor and he or she’s like, ‘Wait, are you paying for all this?” I used to be like, “Okay, high quality. We personal the property.” They caught me at that waterline to maintain. In order that half was property administration. We lower that as property administration.
After we moved out of the entrance home and we purchased one other main residence, once we moved out of that entrance home, we determined to do part 8 and we used a VA program truly referred to as the VA VASH program. And primarily, a bit 8 for veterans. So we needed to do good with our housing. We had this glorious home in an important a part of Lengthy Seaside and we thought, “Okay, we could not get most lease right here, however how can we use this home for good?” So we put a navy household in there the place they have been attempting to undergo college, they couldn’t actually afford lease within the space. And in order that made us really feel good by placing navy housing, offering housing for veterans, which could be very near us. My husband’s a veteran too, clearly we used the VA mortgage, so we needed to do good with the home that we had. So we did that. However issues simply turned a bit sideways with a few of our tenants, and it’s okay, we realized classes, however they weren’t that splendid.
Ashley:
I believe that is the primary time anyone’s ever talked about this program. Are you able to possibly clarify it a bit extra?
Lindsey:
It’s an exquisite program. I’m so glad we discovered it. Mainly it’s sponsored by the VA and so they work proper alongside HUD. And primarily, it really works similar to part 8. Your unit is valued by the zip code and variety of bedrooms, similar to part 8 is. And it’s given a market worth for that space. And it goes up little by little yearly. So that you get the advantages of part 8, the place you do have assured earnings coming in, which is very nice. Is that in COVID, ought to any tenants not be capable of pay their a part of the lease, HUD stepped in and paid the complete lease quantity, which was good. So we didn’t run into that situation, however it was simply one other perk of that program.
So you might have assured earnings and also you get to decide on the background that you just’re comfy with. We actually needed a household in there as a result of we had two bedrooms. We introduced our daughter residence in that unit. We actually needed to assist out a navy household. So we did that. So you possibly can select in order for you a single individual, a household, in order for you no historical past of substance abuse or evictions and issues like that. So you possibly can set your standards as to what sort of tenant you’ll settle for after which they get the appliance course of. You have got a rep from the VA that works with the household or the tenant works with you and it’s very, similar to part 8, however it’s just for veterans. So it was an important program.
Tony:
What was it like for you as the owner to get added into that VA VASH program? Was it an extended course of? Was it fairly fast and simple? What was the vetting course of so that you can get onboarded?
Lindsey:
In all probability is determined by your notion of straightforward and fast versus tough. It wasn’t unhealthy. It wasn’t unhealthy. The property needed to meet sure standards for inspections, however we took nice care of that property. We had renovated it through the time that we lived there. And it wasn’t that lengthy. Possibly it took six to eight weeks I wish to say, for our utility and inspections to be executed. So it did sit vacant for a bit bit and that was okay, however it felt good to know that we have been going to do, like I mentioned, we actually needed to do good with the property that we had. Six to eight weeks I wish to say, with inspections and all the things. After which we acquired tenants in there fairly shortly after that. So it wasn’t very fast. It wasn’t tremendous straightforward. There have been lots of journeys forwards and backwards to the HUD workplace. So if issues like that stress you out, simply be ready for that. However in hindsight, it actually wasn’t that unhealthy.
Tony:
And the standard of tenants that you just acquired, you mentioned that possibly you wouldn’t do it once more, if I heard you accurately? what have been among the classes there?
Lindsey:
I might do it once more, simply these, I might do it once more. I believe a part of it too, and this can be a dynamic that home hackers have after they transfer out of a house that was an funding property, but in addition main residence. You set your blood, sweat, tears into these properties. So if you return and also you see tenants not taking nice care of the house, smoking in it, grease stains throughout your kitchen, they have been damaging our doorways and our model new home windows. So it’s tough to observe somebody not beat up your own home a bit bit, if you’re like, “I introduced my daughter residence in that home, are you able to not?” In order that was only a extra emotional factor. However they have been complaining fairly a bit. They weren’t speculated to be smoking in the home. They’d blame all people for sure issues and so they referred to as us sure names when issues didn’t go their manner. So I might do this system once more. Simply at the moment, the tenants have been stressing us
Ashley:
Lindsey, if you did that program, did they pre-screen these individuals for you? After which did you do any further screening on high of that too?
Lindsey:
They did pre-screen the tenants to verify it match the standards that we needed after which they offered their utility to us and we are able to approve it or deny it. If I recall, we weren’t in a position to meet them in individual, however we might deny their utility if we needed to at the moment. It might change since then, however at the moment we have been in a position to approve or deny them as tenants as they got here by way of.
Tony:
Effectively, thanks for introducing us to VASH, Lindsey. I’ve by no means heard of that. Ashley had by no means heard of that. And a part of the explanation this present is so cool is as a result of Ashley and I can study new issues and selfishly take them into our personal enterprise. However clearly so many people within the Rookie viewers are going to be profit from listening to about this program as properly.
I wish to transition just a bit bit since you are in a novel, I believe, viewpoint or vantage level versus most of our friends, as a result of not solely are you an actual property investor, however you additionally see a ton of quantity as an actual property agent. And there’s been a lot uncertainty this 12 months round whether or not or not individuals ought to get began in actual property investing. If I’m somebody that’s sitting on the sidelines that has zero offers, is now the correct time to purchase? There’s a bunch of value competitors earlier within the 12 months after which as that slowed down you noticed rates of interest climb tremendous, tremendous quick. So out of your perspective as each an investor and as an agent, what are your ideas on whether or not or not proper now is an efficient time for brand new traders to get began?
Lindsey:
Actually good query. In fact, this can be a frequent dialog that we’re having and it goes again to what’s extra essential to you. So we had individuals, such as you mentioned, there was costs getting bit up by way of the roof. It was so arduous to get a suggestion accepted. Individuals held off. Okay, as soon as rates of interest began going up, costs got here down, competitors ceased, however persons are holding off as a result of now rates of interest are too excessive. The very fact of the matter is, we’re by no means going to have the right storm of a market the place rates of interest are low or good, costs are steady, there’s much less competitors, you might have negotiating energy. One thing has to present. So the beauty of actual property investing is that it comes again all the way down to the basics. Does a deal work as we speak? Sure or no? What’s nice, a bonus about individuals who do wish to get began or proceed their portfolio in as we speak’s market, they’re pressured to underwrite the deal higher.
Individuals might get away with shopping for not such nice offers earlier this 12 months and in 2020 as a result of they have been saved by low rates of interest and by costs going up. They’re simply grateful they acquired a deal, as a result of it’s so arduous to lock one in. Right now, you actually must ensure that the underwriting is strong, that the month-to-month cost, that the money stream, that no matter metric you’re monitoring is sensible with as we speak’s rates of interest. If charges go down, implausible, you’ll refinance. You received’t then be having to leap into the market when everybody else is now going to leap again into the market. As a result of then if charges drop, I ask shoppers to promote the time. If charges drop, what do you suppose goes to occur? Oh, possibly costs will return up. Yeah, precisely. After which we’re going to be proper again to you complaining that costs are too excessive, it’s too aggressive and also you wish to wait until it cools off. It’s cooled off.
So you must determine what makes extra sense for you. And what I believe is nice is that in the event you lock in a property at as we speak’s rates of interest, it might probably solely get higher. As a result of if charges drop, you’ll refinance. For those who purchased when charges have been 3%, two and a half p.c, if you should refinance proper now for no matter motive, you in all probability can’t afford that mortgage cost. And also you’re caught with that. And possibly the property is misplaced worth proper now already. And now you possibly can’t promote that in scale. So I believe you’re truly extra at a greater benefit proper now than individuals have been eight months in the past, 9 months in the past, as a result of that market is gone. You’re again to the basics of actual property on this market. So there’s me shopping for alternatives it doesn’t matter what market we’re in. For those who’re an investor, you’re investing, it doesn’t matter what the market’s doing. You’re discovering alternatives in that present local weather and profiting from it.
Ashley:
I noticed somebody publish that on Instagram a pair weeks in the past, possibly a month in the past. And doubtless was you in the event you posted, however it was an actual property agent. And it critically hit me, like, oh my gosh, that’s so true, is your, no matter you pay for a property, you’re caught with owing that greenback quantity.
Lindsey:
Sure.
Ashley:
You owe that. So in the event you’re paying $300,000, it doesn’t matter what the rate of interest is, you’re going to must pay that sooner or later or promote the property and canopy it. However that debt or that money must be supplied to pay for that property. However in the event you get that rate of interest, that may change, you possibly can change that rate of interest. So whether or not charges are dropped and also you go and refinance, you discover a personal cash lender otherwise you do one thing, you do inventive financing, issues like that.
Nevertheless it simply actually, it was like an eye-opening factor for me is, you’re paying loads, you possibly can pay loads much less every now and then, particularly in the event you’re holding the property, a pair years down the highway or nevertheless lengthy down the highway when charges do drop goes and refinancing and also you’re going to be loads higher off since you bought that cheaper price. So I’m so glad we touched on that as a result of I believe that’s such a worthwhile device lesson that everyone can study from that is that, the market was sizzling, it’s cooling off and rates of interest are excessive, however how lengthy do you, and that’s the factor no one can predict is, how lengthy do you must cowl that top mortgage cost till charges do drop-
Lindsey:
And don’t purchase in the event you can’t afford it proper now. And we’re additionally getting the sellers to purchase down the rate of interest. We’re negotiating killer offers proper now. I simply negotiated 2-1 buydown, we acquired $50,000 in credit. So the client can take, I believe they’re doing a 3, 2, 1 purchase down. They’re getting a loopy good rate of interest and this property, they simply would’ve paid over 150 grand extra for it eight months in the past.
Ashley:
Are you able to clarify that? If any individual’s agent isn’t doing that for them, how would they, what’s that course of appear to be?
Lindsey:
Effectively, first name us, I’m simply kidding.
However truthfully, so mainly, it’s much more probably as a result of sellers are very fearful proper now that they only need their home offered. And they also’re keen to, you’ll see some advertising and marketing that claims like vendor keen to purchase down rate of interest, but when they don’t, then you will discover a manner for the client primarily to get their rate of interest purchase down paid for by the vendor. So if you go to purchase property, in any case, there’s at all times rates of interest you can lock in. There’s par pricing, that means this can price you zero additional factors. You should utilize lender credit to have much less closing prices out of pocket, however have a better rate of interest or it might probably purchase down the rate of interest and have a decrease charge that’s going to price you extra money. Proper now we’re in a position to get the vendor to pay it down.
And there’s a program that was not too long ago launched referred to as the 2-1 buydown. It’s not an adjustable charge mortgage. Mainly it’s saying, hey, charges as we speak are 6%, we’ll do 6% for simple math. For the primary 12 months that you just personal the property, you’re going to have 4% rate of interest. The second 12 months you personal the property, you’re at a 5% rate of interest. 12 months three, you go to six%. There’s no prepayment penalty and it’s not an adjustable charge the place you’re topic to the market charge at the moment. So in three years, if charges are 10%, 11%, 12%, we are able to’t even fathom that. However charges have been there. Charges have been at 18% at one level. However so it’s not an adjustable charge mortgage, however you might be primarily having the vendor pay the curiosity upfront so that you can have a decrease rate of interest for the primary two years that you just personal the property. Actually highly effective.
So you must qualify for the mortgage at as we speak’s rates of interest. It’s not a manner for the client to have the ability to purchase extra or qualify for it, which I believe is a extremely essential level to differentiate. It’s not like, “Oh, I can afford this at 4% rate of interest if we get the 2-1 buydown.” No, you must qualify for the mortgage at as we speak’s rates of interest. You get pleasure from having a decrease mortgage cost as a result of you might have a decrease rate of interest for the primary two years that you just personal the property. So it’s nice for brief time period rental homeowners as a result of this solely works for main residence consumers and second residence loans. So in the event you’re doing a second residence mortgage for a short-term rental, you primarily can have two years of a decrease rate of interest, paid for by the vendor, once more. And you’ll face up to, possibly if now we have a downturn or market slows a bit bit, you bought your itemizing up and working, you possibly can in all probability enhance your money stream for the primary couple of years you personal the property by having this program.
So we’re getting this paid for by the vendor and we’re getting a cheaper price than listing value. An inventory value is now not a beginning bid. Record value is a suggestion now. And we’re saying, okay, is there a quantity that you must hit to make this deal be just right for you? Let’s supply that. Let’s not be offensive, however let’s see what they arrive again with. And now now we have wholesome negotiations happening once more. I like this market as a result of now we have negotiations. Each purchaser and vendor must compromise and provides a bit bit. Nobody’s actually having the complete benefit proper now, which I believe it means a wholesome market.
Ashley:
Lindsey, how a lot does that purchase down usually price? Have you ever seen that it’s, I’m certain it in all probability varies from the lender, however is there a typical share of the acquisition value or what does that price truly appear to be?
Lindsey:
Usually, what we’re seeing, and I’m not a lender. Discuss to Dave’s lending staff. The one brokerage, they’re implausible at this. However usually we’re seeing wherever from two and a half to three% of the acquisition value be sufficient for the 2-1 buydown.
Ashley:
Superior.
Lindsey:
So it’s hefty. Typically we’ll work that into the gross sales value if it really works. We’ll inform a vendor, Hey, we’re going to take a piece of your revenue for the closing price credit score, however we’re going so as to add that again in to the acquisition value ultimately to make it a win for everyone.
Ashley:
It’s superb to me how inventive you possibly can truly get with simply your common in the marketplace financial institution financing offers. I imply, you hear inventive financing loads, however that’s normally off market vendor financing, various things which are executed with the inventive financing. However there actually are so some ways to get inventive with conventional financial institution financing too. It’s at all times nice to listen to.
Lindsey:
It’s enjoyable.
Ashley:
And study extra about.
Tony:
Effectively Linda, you’ve been like a wealth of data and I’ve actually loved this dialog, however I might like to get us to our Rookie request line. That manner our listeners can poke into that mind [inaudible 00:37:38] of yours and get some extra data on how I can preserve transferring. So superior. So in the event you guys are listening, you wish to get your query featured on the Actual Property Rookie podcast, give us a name at 8885 rookie. And if the query is an efficient one, we simply may apply it to the episode. So Lindsey, are you prepared for as we speak’s query?
Lindsey:
I’m prepared.
Tony:
All proper, superior. So as we speak’s query comes from Schmidt, simply the primary title, like Oprah. I can’t discover a deal wherever. I do reside in North Carolina, in all probability one of many hottest markets. I assume my query is, how ought to I begin? Ought to I attempt to get a condominium that’s overpriced and has an HOA restriction on renting and simply begin there so I can begin constructing fairness after which transfer ahead as soon as the market cools off in a few years? I’m 30, so I wish to get began sooner moderately than later. But in addition my query is, do you guys suppose I ought to up and transfer? I work distant so I can transfer to a rural city that has an up and coming market, and begin someplace with decrease costs. I’ve funding, I’ve been saving for years, however my comfortability is extraordinarily low. I do plan a home hack and would love to listen to your response. So what’s your recommendation, Lindsey, for Schmidt?
Lindsey:
This can be a nice query and instantly midway by way of the query because it was happening, I’m considering, you want to have the ability to make some changes and sacrifice. So I like that he’s open to transferring. I don’t know in the event you essentially must. I believe it’s going to rely on what he thinks goes to be a greater “deal” for him. Is he in search of money stream when he turns this right into a rental or is he seeking to let this cease the bleeding of lease and scale with fairness, construct faster? If it’s fairness place, then I might counsel staying the place he’s and shopping for the condominium that he feels is overpriced. You can in all probability get an excellent value proper now. And if realtors are telling you that, “No, it’s too sizzling,” discover one other realtor that’s a extremely good negotiator. Expertise guys, goes to be extra essential on this market than ever.
You’ll want to have somebody representing you with the abilities to get the negotiations executed. So actually be aware of that as you’re trying to find somebody that can assist you. But when he’s in search of fairness, I might counsel staying the place he’s and discover one of the best deal that he can. Recommend residing in one thing that wants some work, add worth to it over time. Don’t be afraid to get your arms soiled. You don’t must reside within the nicest and greatest unit and one of the best a part of city. You wish to reside in an excellent a part of city, have a unit you can add worth to over time that’s going to maximise the fairness potential that can put you ready to scale down the highway. Both it’s one other home hack or shopping for extra rental properties or what have you ever. If he’s in search of much less out of pocket, additionally is determined by his finances too. So it’s going to be one other scenario that I don’t have data on.
But when he’s desirous to be extra price conscientious and purchase at a decrease barrier to entry, then transferring for a brief time frame in an space that’s rising, space that has inhabitants progress, job progress alternatives, one thing that he can do if it’s close to a college, if it’s close to a hospital the place you might have a number of additional methods for that property sooner or later to carry onto as a rental, long-term rental, midterm rental, short-term rental, that’s going to be one other nice avenue too. So it relies upon upon what he needs to get out of this primary deal and the place he needs to be the subsequent three to 5 years. I don’t have that from him. I would want a deeper dialog, and your realtor ought to be asking you a similar factor.
However I hope that no less than provides him a bit extra of an thought on which course to go. However I like that he’s open and never saying, “No, actual property doesn’t work. I’m going to maintain on renting and I’m simply going to carry off till the market goes down or what or whatnot. I used to be simply getting in now, negotiating an important deal.” And simply deciding what you need this deal to work and the way you need it to be just right for you.
Ashley:
And what, I do love the questions too, the place any individual has choices. What’s a greater place you may be in than having completely different choices? So, congrats to Schmidt for desirous to get in, began in actual property investing and having these choices. So that you’ll have to put in writing for us within the Actual Property Rookie Fb group and tell us what you find yourself doing. Okay, Lindsey, are you prepared for our rookie examination?
Lindsey:
I believe so. I haven’t studied, however I believe I’m prepared. I’ll be okay.
Ashley:
What’s one actionable factor rookies ought to do after listening to this episode?
Lindsey:
Oh, I’ve a two half to this and so I hope that I don’t get disqualified right here. So half one in all this, I would like everybody to actually take an trustworthy stock about the place they’re getting their data from. There may be such a hype of spreading concern, spreading the headlines that elicit a response and persons are making selections on their investing and their long-term targets primarily based on these headlines. And so, if somebody’s listening to you guys, in the event that they’re listening to Rookie, Greater Pockets, they’re concerned in these type of discussions, they’re already a step forward, which is nice. However simply be aware of the place you’re getting your content material from proper now and who you’re permitting to affect your selections on investing. As a result of these information articles, these sources, they wish to make you’re feeling a sure manner. They need you to suppose a sure manner. So nearly strive to consider if you learn one thing, have some discernment.
Is that this benefiting me? How are they benefiting from sharing this data with me? And simply ensuring that you just’re not making any emotional selections in your investing primarily based on mass media. I believe that’s a lure that I can see lots of people who’re nervous about getting began in investing falling into. I’m not saying don’t be ready, don’t be well-informed, however simply actually attempt to have some discernment if you’re deciding who you’re going to permit to affect your selections transferring ahead into 2023. Half two to that can also be to judge your circle. I do know from private expertise. I’m partnered with David Greene. That has executed fantastic issues for me in my journey. And I do know that in the event you took an trustworthy stock of who you’re permitting to spend so much of time with you, whose affect, whose opinions and is influencing you, actually strive to consider, are these individuals serving me?
They could be properly meant, they’re in all probability very properly meant, however possibly they only don’t get it proper. Possibly they only don’t have the identical targets or imaginative and prescient that you’ve got. So actually consider who you’re permitting to additionally affect you personally and look to raise your circle in 2023. Meetups are nice. I only in the near past joined GoBundance Girls. I’m tremendous enthusiastic about that. I do know I must elevate my circle of people who I look to for inspiration. So two elements to that, simply be aware of who you’re permitting to affect you and be intentional about that on this 12 months.
Tony:
Completely love that reply. I like that reply. Your circle and the individuals you encompass your self with have such a giant affect on you each consciously and subconsciously. So I believe all of us ought to be extra intentional about who we let into our lives and who we allowed to affect us. So love that. All proper, query quantity two, what’s one device, software program app or system that you just use in your online business?
Lindsey:
One thing I ought to use higher as my CRM? , as you’re getting leads, whether or not that be for offers for shoppers, you really want to maintain observe of all the things. And usually, us entrepreneurs will not be very organized. And we hear CRM and we simply, I averted it. I’m like, “No, my notepad and paperwork’s simply high quality.” However we use a CRM referred to as Brivity, and I don’t use it to its potential, however that’s no less than helped me keep organized and centered. After which by way of brief time period leases with automation and evaluation, I like PriceLabs and I like, PriceLabs, I believe is what I exploit to investigate offers. After which Guesty for automation and taking that off my plate in order that issues don’t slip by way of the cracks and my City B friends don’t really feel as accommodated as a result of I didn’t message them straight away or issues like that. So these two, I gave you three, I’m sorry. I’m hoping for additional credit score right here. I’m providing you with [inaudible 00:45:44].
Tony:
That’s high quality. Completely high quality.
Ashley:
Lindsey, along with your CRM, what are some stuff you observe in it in addition to simply the individual’s title and telephone quantity? I’m simply curious as a result of my birthday was a month in the past and I acquired a textual content message from this mortgage officer that I’m utilizing that informed me, “Joyful birthday, I hope you might have an important day.” And I used to be similar to, okay, that is tremendous random. Is that this one thing he tracks and texts all of his shoppers or that, I’m simply his favourite consumer and he occurred to see it was my birthday as we speak on a mortgage doc.
Lindsey:
Possibly ship me a duplicate of that textual content and I can say if it’s a template or not.
So actually good query. I observe essential milestones and I observe what they inform me. In the event that they inform me that they’re happening trip, in the event that they inform me that they’ve huge targets to renovate the home that they’re in, or that is the place they wish to be in a 12 months from now, I observe what’s essential to them within the dialog. There’s a notice part for each name that you just make to prospects or a consumer. And that manner, after I comply with again up with them, I can relate to that. I can ask them a follow-up query so that they really feel, and so they can see that I cared sufficient to keep in mind that.
And I get pulled in so many various instructions. My mind is at all times going 1,000,000 miles a minute with our staff and all the things. So having these trackers about factors of the dialog that I wish to seek advice from later, subsequent time I name them once more, is admittedly essential. After which any objections that they’ve, I prefer to share that so I can make sure that I deal with their private objections and fears and never simply blanket them with everybody else’s issues too, so I can converse to them extra on a person foundation.
Ashley:
I believe that’s actually superior proper there. And I believe this doesn’t even simply apply to shoppers, it’s simply networking usually, goes to conferences, occasions, and writing these notes about any individual. What did they speak about? What made them mild up, what excited them? So holding observe of these issues in order that if you do comply with up with them or see them once more, you’re going to be, they’re going to recollect you since you remembered one thing about them too. And it’s going to make you stand out to them in comparison with any individual who’s simply, “Oh hello, good to see you once more. Do you bear in mind me from this convention?” After which any individual else who’s going, “Oh, how did your daughter like that automotive she ended up shopping for?” Or one thing like that.
Lindsey:
Or who’re you seeking to meet? I like asking individuals, who’re you seeking to meet? Who can I introduce you to?
Ashley:
That’s one other nice level, that connection, being the connector. The matchmaker.
Lindsey:
Sure, completely.
Ashley:
Okay, so final query. The place do you intend on being in 5 years?
Lindsey:
I like and hate this query a lot as a result of in the event you informed me 5 years in the past I might be partnering with David Greene and working this huge actual property staff and having a portfolio, I’d be like, “You’re nuts. You’re loopy.” So I like this query, however I’m additionally like, “I don’t know.” So if I needed to guess or targets that I’ve for myself and our household, I would like my actual property staff to be thriving. We’d like to hit 200 million yearly. We’re serving so many individuals. Our mission is to assist everybody construct wealth by way of actual property. Easy. So I actually wish to maximize that and develop and alternatives that include that.
Personally, for our portfolio, I wish to get into different asset courses. I’d like to get into self-storage. I’d like to get into different industrial areas which are going to have an increasing number of alternative as issues begin, proceed to shift. And I’m open to receiving leads or whatnot for these completely different concepts. I wish to have a medium dimension rental portfolio. We’re extra easy. I don’t need an enormous portfolio. I’d moderately have a handful of excellent performing properties and pivoting as essential to preserve that going. I don’t wish to over complicate my life seeking to simplify it. So I’d like to have an excellent handful, possibly 10 to fifteen properties which are performing and performing properly and now entering into different forms of companies and industrial asset courses.
After which I’d like to, that is foolish, and also you guys may snort, however I might like to reside on a farm. I wish to purchase land and we wish to construct a perpetually residence, and I wish to have the chickens and the goats and all of the issues, and only a easy life. I might love that. So if I can do this within the subsequent 5 years and train my children learn how to develop their very own meals and be self-sustainable, I might love that.
Ashley:
Effectively, I can’t snort as a result of I reside on a farm.
Lindsey:
I’m jealous. I like that life.
Ashley:
It’s a really, very working farm. We simply have dairy cows. There’s no chickens, there’s no pigs. My nieces will typically elevate a pig and we preserve them at our barn. Nevertheless it’s not the passion farm, I assume, the place you might have all of the cool animals and issues like that.
Lindsey:
I might love that although.
Ashley:
No backyard, actually. Simply crops to feed the cows.
Tony:
I’ve by no means felt extra disregarded for not residing on a farm in my life.
Ashley:
However you reside close to the cows?
Tony:
I do reside close to. There are some dairy cows which are close to me. I’m not too far.
Lindsey:
Hey Tony. I’m from California too, so that you by no means know. It’s possible you’ll get uncovered to farm life and be like, “I like this.”
Tony:
Fall in love with it.
Lindsey:
Precisely.
Tony:
Effectively these are nice solutions. You handed the examination with flying colours, Lindsey, as I believed you’ll. In order we wrap issues up, I do wish to give a shout-out to this week’s Rookie rockstar, which is David Lengthy, and David says, ‘Seven years in the past as we speak at age 25, I purchased my first rental property. It was 4 items filled with drug sellers, which I didn’t know on the time. Proper after closing, I drove all the way down to the constructing full of drug sellers, collected all of the lease and money, however it modified my life perpetually. I stop my job at 30 and by no means regarded again. Now I make my very own schedule. I began doing social media content material creation, which I had no thought how a lot I preferred or how profitable it may be. Actual property opens so many doorways when you possibly can take possibilities that wouldn’t be doable being caught at a desk all day. I now personal 11 buildings with 31 items.” So David Lengthy, congratulations. That’s a tremendous story. Love listening to the success.
Lindsey:
Why we do what we do. That fuels me, that will get me so excited. I like tales like that, and anybody can attain it. It’s not out of attain, actually, and I like that.
Ashley:
Effectively, Lindsey, thanks a lot for becoming a member of us as we speak. Are you able to let everybody know the place they will attain out to you and discover out some extra details about you?
Lindsey:
Completely. So I’m heavy on Instagram. That’s in all probability one of the best ways to get to know me a bit bit higher. I put out lots of content material. I’m not nice at reels. Tony and his staff are simply, you guys are all fantastic on the fancy reels. I simply, I do tales and I share lots of stuff with what I shared right here on the podcast as we speak, I prefer to share nearly day by day on my Instagram, so discover me there. My deal with is lindseyiskierkarealtor, and I’m additionally on Greater Pockets, so you possibly can attain out to me there as properly. However I’m actually heavy on Instagram. It’s in all probability going to be one of the best ways to get ahold of me. For those who guys wish to speak to me and our staff in any respect, you possibly can go to [email protected] and we’ll be sure you guys get arrange with an important agent that can assist you accomplish your targets.
Ashley:
Lindsey, thanks a lot for becoming a member of us. We actually appreciated the entire worth that you just had for us and to our listeners. We undoubtedly realized some new issues as we speak and we actually recognize you taking the time to share that with us.
Lindsey:
Oh, this was enjoyable.
Ashley:
I’m Ashley at WealthFromRentals and he’s Tony at TonyJRobinson. And thanks guys a lot for becoming a member of us. We will likely be again on Saturday with a Rookie reply.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQXNyWLjKJk
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