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Important different not sharing your enthusiasm for actual property? Possibly you have got goals of shopping for your first property or going full-time with an actual property enterprise, however your accomplice isn’t on board. You’re not alone! The reality is that investing in actual property is a large determination, and {couples} aren’t at all times on the identical web page. Fortuitously, there are methods to align your objectives and construct a worthwhile actual property enterprise collectively.
On this episode of the Actual Property Rookie podcast, we’re chatting with Zosia Madden. Immediately, Zosia and her husband Tyler function two companies—a profitable building firm and a seven-figure actual property enterprise with twelve rental properties. Regardless of their current success, the couple confronted many challenges earlier than going all-in on actual property—together with the query of whether or not Zosia ought to go away the stability of her W2 job. As you would possibly count on, they didn’t arrive at this determination in a single day. It took a number of conversations—stuffed with vision-casting, goal-setting, and strategizing—earlier than Zosia was capable of put in her two-week discover.
In the event you and your vital different appear to be on two totally different wavelengths, you don’t need to miss this episode! Zosia, Ashley, and Tony cowl among the most essential questions you’ll need to ask your accomplice in your journey towards monetary freedom. Additionally they focus on subjects that many rookie traders battle with—reminiscent of paying your self, hiring fractional advisors, and the methods and processes that can make it easier to scale your actual property enterprise!
Ashley:
That is Actual Property Rookie episode 301.
Zosia:
Till not too long ago I stop my final job proper round center of January full-time. And so this has been a brand new expertise for the each of us, but it surely’s been actually thrilling. I believe if you instantly inform your partner or your accomplice or your youngsters to do one thing, their instant response is, “No.” I don’t know why. It’s your buddy tells you, “Completely, I need to go do this factor.” Your partner tells you it’s, “I’m unsure about that. There’s positively obtained to be a catch.” And so I believe that’s what spouses which can be having hassle, I believe be affected person and be very clear and concise as to why you’re sharing the knowledge and what you need out of it. And I believe your partner can perceive much more.
Ashley:
My identify is Ashley Kehr and I’m right here with Tony Robinson.
Tony:
And welcome to the Actual Property Rookie Podcast, the place each week, twice every week, we deliver you the inspiration, motivation, and tales you might want to hear to kickstart your investing journey. And we’re right here, we’re in individual in Denver. And Ash, we don’t get to do that sufficient. We couldn’t be bodily additional away from one another once we’re really recording the podcast as a result of I’m in California, she’s in New York.
Ashley:
Yeah.
Tony:
And is there something above New York? I don’t know my geography.
Ashley:
Canada.
Tony:
Simply Canada. It’s Canada that’s subsequent, proper?
Ashley:
Yeah.
Tony:
We actually couldn’t be additional away from one another, so it’s at all times cool we will get collectively in individual. And we’ve obtained a very cool episode for you guys at present. You guys have met her husband, Tyler Madden, however at present now we have Zosia Madden on the podcast. And I really like the Maddens and I actually loved this dialog as a result of not solely was it about actual property investing, but it surely was additionally about the entire tangential issues which can be so essential to achieve success as an actual property investor.
Ashley:
And we contact right here so much on partnerships. They’re clearly a married couple of their partnership, however how they’re engaged on two companies collectively. And Tony and I not too long ago wrote a guide Powered by Partnerships, which is popping out in August. And I really feel like we should always have Zosia write little model into the tip of the guide right here about it as a result of numerous the knowledge she gave was so highly effective on enterprise partnerships and relationships with your small business accomplice, whether or not they’re your partner or not. I believe among the greatest takeaways for me was set up and preserve your position and what these tasks are and develop that, but additionally preserve a superb relationship along with your accomplice that you simply’re working with.
Tony:
And we spent numerous time really simply speaking concerning the idea of getting your partner on board. That’s a query that comes up on a regular basis. We hear it on a regular basis, see it on a regular basis. And it was only a actually… I don’t know, it was only a actually insightful dialog round what that really means and obtain that. In the event you’re listening to this podcast and also you need your small business accomplice, your partner, whoever, girlfriend, boyfriend to cite unquote, “get on board”, this can be a nice episode for you.
Ashley:
And Tony does an excellent job of explaining the three ranges of getting on board as to what these three ranges are and what it means to get any person on board in these three totally different ranges.
Tony:
Excited for the dialog with Zosia. That is the a part of the podcast, or that is the a part of the podcast the place I normally learn a overview from somebody within the Rookie viewers, however since we had been right here in Denver, we thought what higher factor to do than to have somebody learn a overview dwell from the viewers. Immediately now we have Tyler Madden who’s on the spot, and he’s simply going to make up a overview after which he’ll really publish that overview as soon as he’s accomplished on Apple Podcasts.
Tyler:
You wager I’ll. So far as this episode, I can’t say that I might love any episode or any visitor greater than I beloved this episode and this visitor. I’m amazed that I get to work with this individual. I discovered so much about working along with your partner, coming collectively on a typical aim, having the ability to dream collectively along with your partner or your accomplice. And I might rent this visitor in a heartbeat to work with me.
Tony:
That’s a great-
Zosia:
I believe it says there too, how enticing all three had been.
Tyler:
Let me add that now.
Zosia:
I simply asking.
Ashley:
Often we learn the username. What’s your username for-
Tony:
That’s Certain. What’s your username?
Ashley:
… your Apple podcast?
Tony:
No, really, we wish your first e-mail tackle. Give me your first e-mail addresses.
Tyler:
Oh, my first e-mail tackle that I ever had my MySpace tackle?
Tony:
Yeah.
Tyler:
Oh, wake setters rock.
Tony:
That’s really not that dangerous.
Tyler:
In all probability @Yahoo or Hotmail.
Zosia:
AOL.
Tyler:
AOL.
Tony:
Aol.com. My first e-mail was [email protected]
Zosia:
I believe mine was like snowboard chick night time.
Tyler:
Nailed it. We nailed the display nickname… You get that accomplished.
Ashley:
Zosia, welcome to the podcast. We’re so completely satisfied to have you ever right here. We’ve had your husband, Tyler Madden on a few instances and welcome to the present.
Zosia:
Thanks for having me. I’m excited to be right here.
Ashley:
Are you able to let everybody know somewhat bit about your self and why you’re right here?
Zosia:
Yeah, completely. My identify is Zosia Madden and I work with my husband Tyler at our building firm referred to as Laurelless. And till not too long ago, really that was very not too long ago, I stop my final job proper round center of January full-time. And so this has been a brand new expertise for each of us, but it surely’s been actually thrilling. And earlier than that I used to be in eating places for over 15 years of excessive degree government groups there. After which went to BP for a minute and now I’m working with Tyler, so very excited. We put money into actual property right here in Denver and Aurora, so now we have a pleasant little funding egg right here as effectively. And I’m a mother to a two-year-old. Life’s loopy.
Tony:
Simply set the desk for us, Zosia. How Tyler’s already accomplished this for people that don’t have the backstory. What number of models are you guys as much as, buildings, et cetera, right here in Denver?
Zosia:
Completely. We’re at the moment at 12 leases. Now we have 11 medium time period leases of that. All of them are-
Tony:
You guys have 11 now?
Zosia:
We do have 11 now.
Tony:
11. I didn’t know that.
Zosia:
Walmart’s explaining my supply instances at the moment on my watch, I believe.
Tony:
That’s superior.
Zosia:
We simply determined to show a few them after I opened them up on Airbnb for some long-term individuals and I obtained 10 requests in a day. And so I mentioned, you realize what? Let’s simply furnish them. And the blokes which can be residing there at the moment are keen to place collectively the furnishings, which I felt was clutch. I’m saving somewhat little bit of time and vitality there. However we’re at 11, our portfolio’s just below $4 million with these 4 properties, which is basically cool. In Denver, we put money into a excessive… I don’t know, it’s an costly market, however we do issues the correct manner. My husband spoke about on the final podcast is that we purchased seven models unexpectedly.
I used to be 9 months pregnant. That complete course of was loopy and we sacrificed so much. However I believe the ROI was enormous on these offers, which led us into the latest deal we simply completed in January. However I do know Rachel talked about she lived in one of many properties on the final episode. After which we’re in search of a brand new one. We’re doing our first flip in Denver, which we’ve by no means accomplished a flip earlier than. We’ve at all times been purchase and maintain traders. And so this may be numerous enjoyable. We’re going actually heavy with the design factor on this one, and we predict that it’s going to end up rather well.
Ashley:
That that’s wonderful. And congratulations in your accomplishments, and I’m certain there’s going to be much more to return. However let’s discuss you transitioning from a W-2 to working immediately for the development firm and also you guys do remodels. And we simply had Rachel Richards on episode 300 the place she had employed you guys and he or she was one among your first investor shoppers, the place you normally gone and accomplished excessive finish luxurious remodels. And we did some bonus content material too, if anybody desires to test that out, the place we really interviewed Zosia and Rachel the place they inform all about that have collectively. And also you’ll discover out in the event that they’re pals or not or in the event that they hate one another.
Tony:
That was an excellent tease, Ash. That was true-
Ashley:
It was good.
Zosia:
I need to watch it now.
Ashley:
There might need simply been a fist struggle out within the car parking zone and Rachel left, however you possibly can watch the bonus content material to seek out out. Inform us concerning the mindset shift you needed to undergo of… And you probably did this pre-show to us as to saying, okay, right here you’re on the W-2 and right here’s your husband constructing the enterprise in the course of the day. And also you’re occurring these reverse paths after which at night time coming again collectively to work on the enterprise. Clarify that transition that occurred as soon as, now you each are engaged on the enterprise. What’s your day-to-day like?
Zosia:
I believe it’s attention-grabbing as a result of I believe lots of people have it of their head that I’m going to stop my W-2, I’m going to turn out to be financially free and stop my W-2. However oftentimes it’s not that simple and it truly is, it takes numerous effort and time and vitality and actually guaranteeing you’re on the identical web page with the partner that you simply’re attempting to try this with. Some individuals may very well be doing it single, I get that. However for our journey it was, I beloved my W-2s at all times. I used to be very profitable. I made some huge cash. I moved up the company ladders. And for me it was consistency and it felt secure to at all times have that W-2. Now, it was additionally actually essential all these years for me to have that as a result of it helped give us the leverage that we would have liked to purchase a few of our preliminary properties.
I don’t suppose that we might have accomplished among the properties that we did with out having that constant paycheck. But it surely got here to a crossroads when, I believe what occurred was, it actually occurred once I grew to become pregnant and we purchased these seven models and we sacrificed so much at the moment. Tyler was working late nights on the mission. He was nonetheless swinging the hammer on these to make it possible for the offers made sense. I used to be feeding the babe and there till 10:00 PM waking up in the course of the night time whereas he was coming dwelling. And so I believe that folks don’t usually take into consideration all of the sacrifices you must make to have the ability to get to the purpose of having the ability to stop a W-2. And I believe one of many breaking factors was we had been frequently doing that. We had been veering off after which generally we’d come again collectively after which we had been veering off once more.
And what that was, it was not permitting us to dwell a parallel life in the direction of our objectives and in the direction of what we needed as our future. And so what actually was the altering level was we went as much as Breckenridge and we took Money, however throughout his nap instances, we set our intentions. We checked out the place we needed to be in 10 years, in 5 years. And we’d at all times had massive objectives, however they had been fluffy. They had been like, “Hey, we need to do massive issues. We need to take over the world.”
Ashley:
Like no plan.
Zosia:
No plan or motion. After which we mentioned, “Okay, the place are we actually at financially proper now? The place might we be if I stop my job and helped develop Laurelless?” As a result of on the time it was simply Tyler and our mission supervisor. They had been taking up only a few jobs right here and there actually efficiently. By a number of jobs I imply they’re half 1,000,000 greenback jobs, so that you don’t should tackle numerous them with the enterprise that now we have. But it surely nonetheless felt like we had been off. And at that second, we set our sights on the place we needed to be in 10 years. After which we mentioned, “Okay, how might we get there in 5?” After which we nonetheless thought, “Okay, I’m going to remain at a job for one more 12 months, 12 months and a half, perhaps two.”
After which at a sure second we simply mentioned, “No, our objectives and the place we will turn out to be and the place we might go and what it could do for our relationship and the place we’re collectively and develop the enterprise was extra essential than protecting that W-2.” And we knew that our funds had been set due to our rental portfolio, which was useful, however we additionally knew that what I used to be going to deliver to the enterprise would make up the dividends as effectively on the opposite facet.
Ashley:
This journey to Breckenridge.
Zosia:
Sure.
Ashley:
Alignment assembly, per se.
Zosia:
Sure.
Ashley:
This was an enormous change for you guys.
Zosia:
Completely.
Ashley:
What are three, perhaps questions rookies at present might sit down with their vital different, their partner, their enterprise accomplice, three questions they might sit down and ask one another that may deliver them to that very same form of impression for his or her life. What are three issues you possibly can consider?
Zosia:
Let me give me a fast story. It began with Tyler doing the 60-day problem with you and Steve Rosenberg and doing these I’m statements each morning. And so we had began doing these I’m statements they usually’re affirmational morning statements. However what Tyler and I had accomplished is a few years in the past, gone in separate rooms and created our I’m statements individually. What we did in Breckenridge is we went line by line of what had been issues that I’m affirming day by day and what he was affirming day by day. And we discovered that over 50% had been virtually precisely the identical, however we didn’t even comprehend it. We didn’t know that we had been transferring in the direction of the identical day-to-day as a result of we at all times did that as our separate thoughts time. I believe that, determine the place you need to go after which actually align along with your partner on let’s go line by line.
And now we have 20 I’m statements. I’m obsessed with my life or I’m not held again by self-limiting beliefs, issues like that the place it’s reminding myself to get out of my very own head generally. After which now we have larger staff objectives of I’m not buying and selling my time for cash and issues like that, the place then impulsively now we have the identical ones each single day. I believe that’s actually essential. I believe asking yourselves, what does your excellent day seem like in 5 years? Which is basically arduous for lots of people to reply.
Ashley:
That’s for me so arduous.
Zosia:
It’s actually arduous. And my reply’s nonetheless somewhat fluffy, however I believe total I’ve a very good understanding of what that appears like and it’s not, not working.
Ashley:
Do you thoughts sharing it with us?
Zosia:
Yeah, for certain. I believe in 5 years our supreme time is we get up on a seaside. I do know the place, I understand how it feels, and I’m with Tyler and Money, we’re capable of test in that our companies are working and companies plural, however I get to take pleasure in my time and my vitality the place I need to spend my time and my vitality. And once more, it’s not like I’m going to do that, this and this day by day, however I do know it’s an essence and it’s a sense that I like and that’s actually what I’m working in the direction of and that’s what we’re working in the direction of.
Tony:
I simply need to share one thought as a result of I battle with the day factor too, and I like to take a look at it extra as what does my excellent week seem like? As a result of I really feel like that provides you somewhat bit extra flexibility.
Zosia:
Completely. Sure.
Tony:
As a result of I take pleasure in podcasting, however would I need to do is day by day? Possibly not.
Zosia:
However in a week-
Tony:
But it surely’s like, if I can squeeze this right into a Tuesday, once we do that on Tuesdays. In the event you’re listening to this, you’re like, “I can’t take into consideration what my excellent day seems like.” Zoom it out just a bit bit and say, “What does my excellent week seem like?
Zosia:
That’s tremendous useful. I do suppose generally we’re scoped too far down to consider larger image. After which I believe quantity three is what might you alter at present or this week that would get you nearer to the place you need to be in 5 years? I believe that generally it’s these small adjustments, these small thought processes that we placed on the again burner and understand in the event you take motion at present on these objects, it’ll simply compound. It’ll make so much simpler to get to the place you need to be.
Ashley:
That’s such an excellent assertion. Ask your self throughout that alignment assembly is what’s one factor we every may very well be doing totally different every day to get nearer to that aim? And that basically will get you pondering. After which perhaps begin pondering of a few extra issues. These are literally three simple issues I can do which can be going to vary my life dramatically.
Zosia:
How do you eat an elephant? It’s one chunk at a time. And I believe all people talks about this, however so usually we predict we have to take it down instantly. We have to stop our jobs now. We’re in such an area of immediacy with the best way that the world is true now, that we predict that the whole lot occurs actually rapidly. However Tony, you’ve been doing this for a very long time, Ashley, you’ve been doing this for a very long time. From what you began as property administration to what you’ve constructed now is a large distinction from what you discovered at your earlier jobs to constructing the actual property, to attending to the place you’re. And a few persons are like, “Oh, they’re tremendous profitable. They did it in a single day.” And that’s simply along with your objectives with the place you’re in your profession, something, it takes time.
Tony:
We had been all at a Brandon Turner’s Higher Life Occasion and we noticed Jay Papasan on talking and I actually loved his presentation. I’ve learn the guide the one factor.
Zosia:
It’s nice.
Tony:
However listening to him break it down in individual and it even gave extra energy to-
Zosia:
Completely.
Tony:
… the thought what you mentioned of right here’s my long-term aim, what’s the one factor I can do at present, this week, et cetera, to form of transfer in the direction of that? A query that I get so much too, as a result of part of the explanation why I really feel like me, you and Tyler and my spouse Sara, all get alongside is as a result of we resonate with the truth that we’re doing this as married {couples}.
Zosia:
Completely.
Tony:
And I do know one of many questions I at all times get is, “Tony, how did you get Sara on board?” What was the journey for you and Tyler? Was it at all times, “Hey, we’re going to do that collectively.”?
Zosia:
No.
Tony:
Stroll us via that journey. How did you get from, “I’m climbing the company ladder, I’m doing this factor, I’m actually good at it,” to, “Hey, I like this concept,” to, “I’m going to assist somewhat bit,” to, “Okay, cool, we’re doing this collectively.”
Ashley:
And it’s not even simply investing, it’s really operating enterprise too.
Tony:
Operating a enterprise.
Zosia:
And that’s what we are saying too. We’re operating two companies collectively. I actually suppose that you probably have an actual property portfolio, that’s a enterprise, in the event you’re doing it proper. You’ve a P&L, you perceive the place your bills are, you might want to have insurance coverage, all LLCs. You’re operating a enterprise. We’re operating two companies collectively, which is form of insane when you concentrate on it and now we have a baby. We like one another most days. And so I’m like, “Okay, this is the reason it’s all working.” However no, I believe that it was a sluggish roll, which I believe I’ve heard is how you probably did it with Sara as effectively. As with something, I believe if you instantly inform your partner or your accomplice or your youngsters to do one thing, their instant response is, “No.” I don’t know why. It’s your buddy tells you, “Completely, I need to go do this factor.” Your partner tells you it’s, “I’m unsure about that. There’s positively obtained to be a catch.”
And so I believe that that was my sentiment for a very long time of, “That is too good to be true. I’m probably not certain.” Now return 10 years. I grew up in flats. My mother was a single mother. My mother has by no means owned a home, so I used to be at all times in flats. And so when Tyler goes, “Hey, let’s get a home,” I used to be confused as to why. We had an excellent condo. It was advantageous. However that was an enormous swap simply in my head area then of shopping for a home and seeing what Tyler did of the sweat fairness he put into that home. And us getting roommates earlier than home hacking was a time period to pay for issues. After which fast-forward, I believe actually when he realized that it was time for his mindset shift. I had accomplished one perhaps 5 years prior. I had at all times needed to do management books with the job that I used to be in, and Tyler wasn’t prepared then. And understandably so once I was studying these, my mindset was in the direction of my job that I used to be at on the present second.
And he didn’t actually perceive the way it impacted us as a complete. Now when Tyler was able to make that mindset shift, he saved on coming again to the way it made an impression on us as a complete, not simply him being a basic contractor or him in the actual property area, which I believe is a large distinction if you understand that the knowledge that you simply’re bringing to your partner could make a distinction on your life as a complete. I began seeing bits and items of that. He joined a few masterminds and a few challenges. I might see how a lot effort and work he was placing into that, which inherently was much more than I had seen him put into something outdoors of labor beforehand. He’s any person that doesn’t tackle hobbies or get actually centered on one thing. And so I used to be actually impressed with seeing all of that.
After which I believe as soon as he obtained into listening to the podcast, I believe he actually began listening to the rookie podcast. I believe after you had been on the Steve factor to the OG podcast and simply another books. And slowly he would simply ship me video recordings of him driving within the automobile, however simply his telephone as much as the recording of simply snippets. And he would simply textual content me the snippets. And I’m like, “Oh, that’s attention-grabbing.” After which impulsively I’m listening to the podcast alone. And so I believe it was slowly of, “Okay, how can we do that?”
Ashley:
Planting the seed?
Zosia:
Positively planting the seeds. It was like not… What’s the other of a bamboo. Bamboos develop actually quick. It was regardless of the slowest rising seed there may be is was me. After which it was as soon as we… We’re comparatively spontaneous individuals. I believe you guys know this about us, we’re had been fairly spontaneous. There was only a sure second that it switched and impulsively it’s like we had been in Maui. I used to be 33 weeks pregnant, we had been on our babymoon, a realtor calls us with this deal, and we mentioned, “Go stroll it.” And we’re on this seaside they usually’re strolling the property right here in Denver. It’s snowing in Denver. And we’re like, “Let’s do it. How can we determine this out?” After which impulsively, one other deal got here our manner in two weeks. And we’re like, “Nicely, that’s 1,000,000 {dollars} in actual property in two weeks.” And we simply, I believe had… Fortunately Tyler had sufficient foundational data and we had been analyzing it on offers.
This isn’t like a, “Hey, simply randomly go and purchase 1,000,000 {dollars} in actual property.” Do numerous analysis, take your time, perceive what you’re doing. However we had all that data. And so we felt actually comfy lastly doing it. And I believe that it was a partnership and us entering into on these. I believe it might have been some other manner contemplating I used to be so pregnant and we knew what the work was going to be to take that. I believe, it was positively a sluggish inspirational, simply planting the seeds after which impulsively once we had been prepared, we had been prepared. And I believe you guys really feel that as a result of if you had been prepared, then impulsively the rocket ship occurred. You guys exploded. And so I believe that that’s what spouses which can be having hassle, I believe be affected person and be very clear and concise as to why you’re sharing the knowledge and what you need out of it. And I believe your partner can perceive much more.
Tony:
You mentioned so many good issues in there, Zosia. However a few issues I need to level out. First, you mentioned that you simply noticed how critical Tyler was taking this. He joined masterminds and challenges. And I believe if you see your partner investing numerous time and vitality into one thing, you as the opposite individual can hopefully acknowledge that that is one thing that’s critical. However I believe that solely works if there’s a sure degree of belief between the spouses.
Zosia:
Completely.
Tony:
As a result of if Tyler was the kind of man who had a unique concept each different night time and half-assed the whole lot that he did when he got here into this actual property kick, it could simply be the newest taste of the week.
Zosia:
Completely.
Tony:
However as a result of that degree of belief was there so that you can know to that, if Tyler’s actually specializing in one thing, then that is one thing that’s critical.
Zosia:
Completely.
Tony:
I believe that’s the primary layer. And I believe what numerous spouses who’re attempting to get their partner on board, what they battle with is the tempo at which the opposite partner desires to maneuver. And so they’re like, “I’m studying all these books. I’m going to those occasions. I want you right here with me proper now.”
Zosia:
Prepared.
Tony:
And it doesn’t at all times work that manner. And I believe the best way that you simply discuss it the place it’s like, “Hey, let me simply ship you this one clip. I’m not going to ship you a complete podcast.”
Zosia:
No.
Tony:
15 seconds.
Zosia:
Precisely.
Tony:
And that’s an effective way to ease into it. Each partner strikes at their very own tempo. However the very last thing I’ll say on this… And I’d like to speak about this trigger the query comes up so usually. The very last thing I’ll say although is that folks additionally want to grasp that simply because Tony and Sara or Tyler and Zosia are enterprise companions they usually’re doing it collectively, that doesn’t essentially imply that that’s what you and your partner are going to be. And there are ranges. It’s like you might have degree one the place your partner is opposed they usually’re like, “I don’t care what you say, I don’t care what you do. We’re not investing in actual property.” That’s the primary degree. The second degree is, “Hey, I see that is essential to you. I’m going to be supportive, however I’m going to remain over right here and I’m going to do my factor.” After which degree three is, “Okay, let’s do it collectively.”
And so many individuals they suppose that getting their partner on board solely means degree three when actually it might simply imply degree two, your partner is there, they’re going to assist you, they’re going to encourage you, however perhaps they like what they’re doing of their day job and perhaps they need that for themselves.
Zosia:
Completely. And I believe that’s a superb level. And what we’ve realized is that train that we did in Breckenridge, going again to that mastermind of alignment, that doesn’t should be that you simply’re going to work collectively. That alignment doesn’t should say we’re working collectively. That needs to be what you do along with your partner in the event you’re on degree one or degree two. As a result of I believe that being on the identical web page and residing life collectively and nonetheless having fun with the day-today, whether or not or not you need to do the identical issues, not all people is supposed to do the identical issues. And that’s completely nice. It really works for Tyler and I, it really works for you and Sara, however I do like what you’re saying. However I do suppose that getting alignment, or no less than the place do you need to dwell your day on the day-to-day, your week to week, your month to month, your 12 months to 12 months, and understanding that if you come again collectively, if you retire, no matter that appears like, will you continue to know who one another are?
Have you ever been occurring this journey collectively? Have you ever actually been conscious of what you need and the way you need to get there, whether or not or not it’s collectively or separate? However in the event you’ve determined to make that dedication and also you need to stick in that dedication, then how are you going to dwell that? And what lanes are you going to dwell that in?
Tony:
So good. All proper. Sorry, I took us on a tangent there, however I assumed I used to be-
Ashley:
No, I believe that’s a very nice one to go on, as a result of that’s such a typical query that we get requested and I’m certain, particularly you. And even in my very own state of affairs the place I used to be on degree two. I used to be investing, my husband had no curiosity, and it ended up taking us totally different paths resulting in our separation. However I believe that that’s positively one thing actually essential to speak about at first as to how you’re aligned. And having these alignment conferences. Like Zosia mentioned, it’s like, okay, if you get to the purpose the place you’re retired, you’re empty nesters, the youngsters are gone, do you continue to like one another? Do you continue to need to do the identical issues day by day? You don’t have your jobs now that you simply love. And it obtained to the purpose the place we each beloved the separate companies and I used to be constructing my enterprise in order that he didn’t should do his enterprise.
That was my complete motive for beginning it, was in order that he didn’t should do the farm day by day. And it’s like, “Nicely, really I need to preserve doing the farm day by day.” And that’s the place it’s like, “Nicely, we will’t do something collectively now that we each need and we wish these totally different ends.” And it’s labored out advantageous. Every thing is nice and stuff. However having these in conferences and understanding alongside the strains the place you’re each going as I used to be working for a very totally different finish aim than what really he needed. I believe that having that readability from the very starting is so massive.
Tony:
However I believe that’s simply the arduous half about marriage on the whole. Who I’m at present at 32 may be very totally different than who I used to be at 25.
Zosia:
Completely.
Tony:
Very, very totally different than who I used to be at 20. And it’s like, I believe I really feel so lucky that as I’ve gone via these totally different phases, Sara and I’ve gone via… We’ve been pointed in the identical route, but it surely’s like, who is aware of? Possibly at 45 we’re going to be completely totally different individuals. My hope is that we’re nonetheless rising in that very same route. However I imply, you by no means know. Individuals change over the many years.
Zosia:
I do know Tyler because the 17-year-old driving a 1984 Chevy Blazer, with the subwoofers at the back of his automobile to the one who was preventing for a profession and to turning into a GC, to be turning into a wonderful father. And we’ve seen that evolution of who we’re and positively who we’re at 17 is completely totally different than who we’re once we actually, actually began actively, we’re going to make a future collectively in 2009 or so. However we’ve recognized one another for over half our lives now, which is form of loopy. And that very same with you and Sara, the place the truth that we’ve been ready to do that… And there’s days the place now we have hiccups, don’t get me unsuitable, it’s not all sunshine and butterflies each single day. There are occasions the place now we have to work on what we’re doing, however now we have determined to work on it. After which we work within the enterprise. There’s days the place I’m like, “I don’t like that enterprise determination.” Or he’s like, “I don’t like that enterprise determination.” And now we have to work via that now as a result of it’s not simply dinner.
Ashley:
And it’s so arduous.
Zosia:
It’s not simply dinner.
Ashley:
That private line and the work relationship-
Zosia:
That’s enormous.
Ashley:
… collectively. How do you not let the work battle with completely the non-public relationship.
Tony:
It’s a stability set.
Zosia:
Set boundaries.
Tony:
It’s a stability.
Zosia:
For certain.
Tony:
Nicely, let’s speak somewhat bit with Zosia now about what at present seems like.
Zosia:
Completely.
Tony:
You’ve left the W-2 world.
Zosia:
Left the W-2 world.
Tony:
And now you’re full-time right here each in the actual property enterprise and the development enterprise. Two questions. What’s your position first, after which how did you determine between you and Tyler that may be your position?
Zosia:
One thing that we’ve at all times recognized is that Tyler’s a visionary. He is superb at massive image, excellent at massive objectives. And I don’t know if it was my upbringing or what, however I’m a right here and now black and white relative pessimist. What that usually-
Ashley:
I can’t even get previous this week. It’s like, right here’s what I must do proper now for the enterprise. That’s not like-
Zosia:
I don’t know. And so us doing that, the imaginative and prescient aim setting was actual arduous for me. Nonetheless, it’s fluffy within the background, however so I’ve at all times been the one which’s like, “Okay, what payments are due now? How can we make an impression now?” And from my final job, proper earlier than BP, I had this phenomenal COO. I had regarded as much as him for a lot of, a few years, and he was simply actually good at what he did. And he helped these day-to-day operations. He helps worker administration, made certain that contracts had been good, made certain that nothing was actually falling via the cracks, and was the direct liaison to the CEO. And so initially I used to be simply going to perhaps be… And naturally titles or titles, on the finish of the day, we titled myself the COO.
I’m an operations, actually, I simply am supporting the expansion of the enterprise. And so what I do everyday now’s make sure that the system has been introduced up financially to make sure that we perceive the place all of our cash is forecasting, the place all of our cash goes. We are able to deliver up the fractional CFO in a minute.
Ashley:
Nicely, let me ask you one thing there with the expansion of the cash. Is that wanting on the complete image of, “Okay, right here’s how our enterprise is doing financially, but additionally right here’s the cash we pull out of the enterprise, pay ourselves, right here’s the place our private spending investments issues are too.” Is that-
Zosia:
Sure.
Ashley:
… close to the entire realm of that?
Zosia:
I run principally each companies, so our actual property enterprise and our P&L and numbers that manner. And ensuring that hey, funds are coming via. We do the whole lot via Airbnb. It simply makes my life a complete lot simpler. I simply see funds coming via, computerized funds going out, after which now we have the web earnings on the backside of all of that. After which now we have our P&L for the enterprise the place now we have all of our salaries, all of our data, and actually it’s like controllable prices, non controllables, issues like that. After which our quantity on the backside. Now we have a tremendous CPA who has talked us out of each getting full up bone salaries from our firm, so we do extra distributions. It’s understanding the entire ways in which each tax-wise, private residing clever, how we’re going to dwell from each the actual property enterprise to the enterprise enterprise on ourselves.
And actually proper now we’re taking very minimal salaries from the enterprise as a result of we’re on this development mode and now we have the flexibility to do it. Some individuals would say, “That’s a nasty deal. You should wager on yourselves and pay yourselves extra.” However we actually need to preserve the enterprise making a living for now. After which if my forecast is appropriate, we’ll be capable to take a pleasant bonus on the finish of the 12 months, or we’ll simply reinvest it into itself. I’m not attempting to bleed the enterprise proper now. And that’s what’s our most important focus.
Tony:
Zosia, I’m so glad you introduced that up and I need to pause on that for a second as a result of it’s within the conventional world of enterprise, that’s what most house owners do. However on the planet of actual property investing, it appears bizarre that you simply’re not taking all your cashflow from your small business instantly. You take a look at startup founders, they virtually by no means pay themselves something. And so they’re taking each single potential penny that they will and dumping it again into the enterprise as a result of they know that if I sacrificed somewhat bit at present and I proceed to try this for an prolonged time period, now the enterprise begins to turn out to be this self-fulfilling factor the place it’s rising and there’s this momentum.
Zosia:
Completely.
Tony:
And it grows past what it ever would’ve needed to begin taking an even bigger wage initially. We do the identical factor. We take a really small quantity out of our actual property enterprise, even our media firms, a really small quantity. And we reinvest as a lot as we will. I get sick generally fascinated by how a lot I pay in payroll to different individuals.
Zosia:
Payroll, payroll taxes, workman comp insur… Our workman comp insurance coverage this 12 months alone was like $13,000 only for the 12 months of workman comp-
Tony:
Isn’t that loopy?
Zosia:
… for 3 workers. Insane. We talked on that earlier than.
Ashley:
In my expertise, mine was really very totally different once I began actual property investing, I bled that rental earnings and I used it to repay all of my debt.
Zosia:
Which is nice.
Ashley:
My pupil loans, my automobiles, farm tools after which after that, I’ve barely touched it since.
Tony:
However see, even then, there was a goal.
Zosia:
You had been enjoying straight.
Ashley:
However nonetheless it was like… I wouldn’t advocate doing that as a result of I didn’t actually have a ton of reserves beginning out as a result of I used to be actually taking each greenback I had. I had my Dave Ramsey snowball impact ahead as to, right here’s how a lot I can add from every property every time. However I might need bled it somewhat bit an excessive amount of.
Zosia:
However now it’s paid off. And I believe that-
Ashley:
Oh yeah, which is nice.
Tony:
Okay, so sorry, again to your position. I grew to become the place we left, sorry, I triggered one thing.
Zosia:
No, so I’m actually engaged on operations on the day-today. Working with our mission supervisor and our superintendent virtually every day. We’ve carried out a few platforms that basically assist us keep organized.
Ashley:
Nicely, let me ask you a query on that so far as, okay, so the blokes are building guys, okay, palms on. How has it been getting them to implement totally different methods, processes, software program? That’s one thing that I’m like for the property administration firm, getting distributors like an equipment retailer. It’s a mother and pop equipment retailer and it’s like, “Now we have this software program, we’ll simply e-mail you. Now we have a piece order, right here’s what we’d like. You name the tenant immediately.” They’re like, “No, no, no, no. We simply need Darryl to name us. Simply have him name us.” And it’s similar to, “Okay.”
Zosia:
Please use my system.
Ashley:
How has that been via your staff, implementing the cease door and getting them to take… Right here you go. You bought to take pictures and all these items.
Zosia:
It’s a work in progress. I believe that it’s… We simply had a name yesterday really with our staff of, our subsequent degree 10 on Tuesday. Every of them has to-
Ashley:
Clarify actual fast what a degree 10 is.
Zosia:
Oh, yeah. Degree 10 is simply our enterprise assembly, we run, we’re attempting to. I’m most likely not 100%, however operating the entrepreneurial working system for our enterprise the place we set rocks. After which now we have our degree 10 conferences, which is simply an outline of the place our enterprise is at within the present second. However now we have it each single Tuesday at 10:00 AM to speak via excellent news the place we’re at with our initiatives, our quarterly rocks, after which determine points, determine and remedy. We’re actually working in the direction of protecting that consistency, as a result of it simply retains us all on the identical degree enjoying subject. However on that decision, we realized that, hey, there’s been some lapses in some methods the place I’ve carried out them. And that’s form of the identical factor because the partner giving recommendation. Typically it must be individuals’s concepts so as to actually get full buy-in, however generally some workers simply don’t suppose that manner, which is okay. How do you make issues virtually their concept and hand them one thing that appears like their concept, however then they really feel extra apt to reply and take it on.
Ashley:
As an alternative of it being like, “Right here’s extra work that I’ve to do.”
Zosia:
Extra work that I’ve to do or something. We’re attempting to make issues simpler for them. And I believe virtually letting them take heed to how a lot Rachel beloved the every day logs. And since we’re getting every day logs perhaps each different day or each third day as a substitute of the time period every day. And once more, we’re working such small initiatives, however we need to scale this enterprise. We’re a seven determine enterprise proper now, however we need to proceed to develop that. We need to double or triple our earnings each single 12 months. And the one manner we’re going to try this efficiently is to have nice methods and processes and be you clear.
Ashley:
And in the event you let one thing slide now to each third day, then it’s such as you’re scaling, you’re rising. And it’s like, it’s arduous to return and say, no, we do that day by day. And because the enterprise proprietor, it’s very simple to let that slide as a result of it’s like, it’s not an enormous deal now I don’t need to desire a confrontation.
Zosia:
And that’s the dialog that we frequently have with them is, “Hey, this isn’t about at present or tomorrow, that is about subsequent 12 months. Or if you get an worker beneath you. It’s how are we going to coach this or coach this or train this?” And I believe that’s the good factor about my background was in individuals, coaching growth and implementing methods, so it’s helped. And I believe one factor that our staff is bringing to our subsequent assembly are three issues that they might change tomorrow that may make their jobs simpler. And whether or not or not I’m going to have the ability to say, “Yep, no extra X, Y, and Z since you suppose it’s going to make your job simpler.” However I can no less than perceive the place they’re coming from and what are the roadblocks or what do they suppose goes to make their lives simpler. And in order that manner we will try to implement one thing that they’re extra purchased into. Now, we have-
Ashley:
That’s such an excellent concept, is asking that query.
Zosia:
I believe it’s simply essential to get your staff’s perception. Now there’s alternative ways to steer a staff. There’s alternative ways to steer it that hey, you could be only a dictatorship and inform individuals what to do. You generally is a little bit extra easygoing on the bottom and simply say, “Hey, we’re simply operating a enterprise.” However now we have very distinct objectives for this enterprise and we don’t need to take any possibilities proper now on taking 10 steps again from what we’ve created within the right here and now. I believe it’s about creating these methods and getting these issues going, which is an enormous a part of my job, going again to the query.
Tony:
Let me share two issues, Ash, as a result of we’ve struggled somewhat bit with adoption and system applied sciences, et cetera. And I can provide two examples of various methods we did it. In our cleansing firm and Joshua Tree, we instituted new software program. And as a part of that software program, very related cleaners needed to take pictures, numerous pictures. It’s numerous pictures of the pantry displaying that it’s clear, of the fridge.
Ashley:
When Sue was speaking about that, that’s the precise factor I used to be pondering of.
Zosia:
Sure.
Ashley:
As a result of I used to be like, there’s no manner my cleaners would do this. And that’s the place it goes again to, however implementing it.
Tony:
Right here’s how we set it up. First we educated them, we mentioned Airbnb has modified the requirements for what a 5 star clear seems like. And we actually confirmed them the screens within Airbnb the place in the event you get 4 stars, it’s very clear. And now to get 5 stars, you must be extraordinarily clear. They perceive that the bar has been raised. We modified their fee construction, in order that they get bonuses if they’d 5 stars. Now they’re incentivized to make it possible for they’re doing a greater job. And there’s additionally a penalty. In the event that they get a number of dangerous critiques, they’re docked pay. Now there’s this monetary incentive. After which we additionally inform them, “Hey guys, the opposite motive that now we have the picture is as a result of generally visitors do lie.” They’ll test right into a property they usually’ll simply say issues, try to get a reduction.
And now we will say, look, if now we have a photograph, timestamped picture every day of what the property regarded like earlier than the visitor checks in, now now we have proof to say that it wasn’t on you as a cleaner. And this actually simply occurred yesterday. I obtained a message from one among my VAs that mentioned, a visitor checked in and mentioned, “Hey, the new tub’s soiled.” And the message got here later within the day, so there’s an opportunity they might have used it. My VA introduced up the picture glowing clear sizzling tub earlier than the visitors obtained there. Now we all know it wasn’t as a result of our cleaners did one thing unsuitable, it was one thing with the visitors. That was one instance. There was a monetary incentive. There was-
Ashley:
How did you deal with that? Did you go along with the purchasers at all times proper and do one thing?
Tony:
Hey, we’ll ship them the picture. We’ll say, “Oh my gosh, it’s so unusual. Right here’s what it regarded like earlier than you checked in. We’re probably not certain what might have occurred. Is it potential somebody might have used it?” I don’t know what their response was, however that’s normally how we reply to one thing like that.
Zosia:
That’s nice.
Tony:
After which the opposite factor that we did… And that is really for our teaching packages. Now we have gross sales reps in our teaching firm and now we have software program that we have to use within it, they’re simply to ensure we’re monitoring the whole lot. And our gross sales reps, after they have calls with potential college students, they’re presupposed to mark the decision. Did this individual really present up? In the event that they present up, did they be part of or did they not be part of? As a result of we will’t inform, are we doing a superb job if we will’t observe these issues?
And our gross sales reps had been doing a very dangerous job of doing that. We made a change to the place in the event you shut a sale, if somebody joins this system throughout your teaching name, but it surely’s not marked within the system, you’re not going to receives a commission for it. The system is a single supply of reality. In the event you ship an bill and we pull up the system and it’s not in there, then it doesn’t exist. 100% compliance as quickly as that occurs. It’s such as you obtained to seek out alternative ways, I believe, to inspire individuals to get them on board.
Zosia:
I believe it’s so essential to start out with why, with something that you simply do, in the event you clarify why that you simply’re doing one thing. And I believe that that’s actually what we’ve accomplished as a enterprise. It’s saying, “Hey, why do we’d like a COO? Why do we have to deliver up a fractional CFO? Why do we have to rent Amanda Hahn as a CPA?” Why do we have to have all of these items and perceive the why down the highway? And I believe it actually helps get individuals somewhat bit extra purchased in in the event that they get purchased in and need to develop with the staff. And that’s actually what Tyler and I try to construct an empire right here. I believe so are you and so are you. And I believe that that’s what we’re doing is we’re not simply going to be BRRRR traders ceaselessly. We’re going to be individuals who run companies. And I believe that that’s actually the place the worth lies in creating methods.
Tony:
Can we speak somewhat bit concerning the fractional CFO? What’s that? What does the profit? Simply stroll us via what that’s.
Zosia:
It’s humorous really. I hadn’t heard about fractional executives till I labored at BiggerPockets they usually had a few fractional execs. And actually what it’s is when an organization of a sure measurement may not have the cash or sources or must deliver on any person in sure roles full-time. One thing that Tyler and I’ve accomplished is we’ve constructed out an organizational chart for the place we’re at the moment, the place we have to be most likely in a few 12 months. After which future tense, what do we’d like and the place are we going to be massive image? Huge image, we’ll have all this in-house. We’ll have a CFO, we’ll have any person that does expertise, we’ll have somebody that does advertising and marketing, issues like that. However for the truth that we’re a four-person mighty staff with subcontractors, it didn’t make sense for us financially to deliver on a monetary individual.
We really discovered any person within the community that ran a building firm that extremely advisable their fractional CFO. And what that’s is we pay him a month-to-month payment. I meet with him weekly, if not biweekly, if there’s one thing else arising. He’s additionally capable of meet with our staff about accounting processes or issues which can be occurring. And he actually challenged me to grasp the funds greater than I ever had. Fortunately with my expertise in eating places, I had a very good understanding of a revenue and loss assertion. I at all times knew about these as a result of in eating places, the whole lot is on the underside line, and that’s the way you make all of your cash. And fortuitously with our rental portfolio, I’d been actually good at monitoring numbers and the whole lot, however probably not for Tyler’s enterprise. And Tyler actually, the best way he ran his enterprise beforehand, which was not unsuitable, but it surely was, “Hey, I’ve a number of financial institution accounts for every job. I’m going to run it via. Something that’s left over I get.”
And that is nice. And that labored rather well when it was simply him. As soon as we began having extra overhead, extra payroll, insurances, car prices, paying for different issues, it simply began getting somewhat messy. And so what this fractional CFO does is basically simply encourages me to grasp, to forecast numbers, make it possible for we’re staying funds versus precise. We do experiences and reevaluation on the finish of each month to grasp the place had been we over, had been we beneath. Why had been we lacking $42,000 this month? Oh, it’s as a result of we needed to pause due to cupboards, which signifies that that cash is now going to get allotted to June, which suggests we’re going to have a heavier month, which signifies that, hey, perhaps we will tackle an additional job or not, or put extra money into a unique a part of the enterprise that we’ve been holding off on like advertising and marketing.
And so it simply actually permits us to see larger image on it. And he’s only a enterprise coach. He’s accomplished so much. I extremely advocate that on issues that you simply’re not 100% comfy with or 100% educated, rent any person that’s. And identical factor with the CPA. On the finish of the day, Amanda Hahn’s wonderful. And she or he wrote two wonderful books for BiggerPockets. However I don’t have time to learn these and truly turn out to be an accountant-
Tony:
Implement it.
Zosia:
… and implement them. Whereas us hiring her, we’re capable of name her and say, “Hey, we’re about to purchase a home. Is that cool or not?” Or, “What ought to we take into consideration?” Or for the enterprise clever, “Hey, what ought to we be paying ourselves?” “Oh, effectively, you need to fear about your payroll taxes? Don’t pay additional to these, get it via distributions.” And I’m not a authorized recommendation, that is no authorized recommendation, however that’s simply what she informed us to do. And I believe that educating myself with nice individuals round, I believe that I’ll preserve them on. There’s some people who say, “Hey, use these mentors or use these fractional individuals that you simply rent for a short while after which study it your self.” However I don’t have time for that, so I’m going to maintain them on till we get to a spot within the enterprise the place we might rent on full-time.
Tony:
Rent them full-time. I really like that. While you put money into good advisors, they’re price 10X what you pay them.
Zosia:
Oh, completely.
Tony:
You rent a superb CPA, they’re going to make you 10, 20X what you pay them.
Zosia:
Completely.
Tony:
And I knew that with Amanda. And it’s humorous as a result of I really talked… We talked about this earlier than, however I talked to your fractional CFO. And I didn’t need to decide to paying another person for one more service. However wanting again and saying it out loud, it’s like, I do know I’m doing myself a disservice as a result of each time I’ve accomplished that, they’ve earned extra again than what I’m spending to retain their companies. You guys discovered one thing from me at present additionally. I obtained classes to study.
Zosia:
I find it irresistible.
Ashley:
Nicely, let’s go into our rookie examination.
Zosia:
Okay.
Ashley:
Our first query is, what’s one actionable merchandise that rookie listeners ought to do at present?
Zosia:
I believe after what we had been simply speaking about is determine what you’re good at and determine what you’re not good at or what you don’t need to study. And go both to your community, rent an advisor, rent a coach, rent any person fractional. I believe that oftentimes it feels scary at first to spend cash to generate income, however that’s positively an previous saying, and it’s a saying for a motive. I believe that you might want to spend cash to generate income oftentimes. And discovering the correct individual that you may add into your life will make an enormous distinction on the expansion and trajectory of your small business. Actual property or an out of doors enterprise as effectively.
Tony:
I really like that. Query quantity two, what’s one software program app system or software that you simply use in your small business?
Zosia:
Google.
Tony:
Google?
Zosia:
Google Drive. Google Drive is my savior. I really like Google Drive. I believe that it’s really easy to prepare. Now we have an enormous hub for all of our data. We add all of our… Now we have per mission, now we have invoices, now we have specs, now we have the whole lot that we’d like in there. And I believe it integrates actually properly with Slack. And so anytime I create something, it simply goes backwards and forwards. I used to be going to say JobTread, however that’s actually building based mostly, so it doesn’t actually have an effect on lots of people. However I believe in the event you use Google Drive the correct manner, it may be actually transformative with the enterprise.
Tony:
Are you utilizing Monday in any respect or are you utilizing any form of mission administration software program?
Zosia:
We’re form of utilizing Asana.
Tony:
Okay.
Zosia:
I believe one factor with, again to your query about including on an excessive amount of and methods and processes. I’ve used Asana in my previous. I beloved it. And it was virtually an excessive amount of for this staff unexpectedly, so we would have liked to get again to the fundamentals of let’s simply get issues organized after which ship out reminders through simply emails, or not emails, however in your calendar. And I believe slowly we are going to get again to Asana as a result of I believe it is vital, however numerous our mission administration occurs via JobTread. I believe that it was… We want it for the inner elements of our enterprise, however not essentially for jobs. And proper now we’re so centered on jobs that the inner focus could be grassroots proper now. And we’ll get to that I believe subsequent.
Ashley:
Okay, cool. And you then already shared this, however the place do you see your self in 5 years?
Zosia:
Taking part in on a seaside with my cute little boys, together with my husband and my cute little boy. And I believe that that’s simply watching the sundown and realizing that life is okay and never having a guidelines or to-do on the again of my head, I believe I might actually respect that.
Ashley:
That’s superior. Nicely, thanks a lot for becoming a member of us. Are you able to let everybody know the place they will attain out to you and discover out some extra details about you?
Zosia:
I’m on Instagram @zosiamadden after which actually numerous our story is shared on my husband’s Instagram, which is @tylermadden. However I believe that’s actually the place… Now we have a web site, we’re redoing it proper now. I believe observe us on Instagram for essentially the most up-to-date.
Tony:
Spell Zosia for people in aren’t good with that stuff?
Zosia:
Oh, yeah. Z-O-S-I-A. Madden, M-A-D-D-E-N.
Tony:
Good.
Ashley:
You had been superior. Thanks a lot for becoming a member of us dwell right here in Denver. We actually respect it. I’m Ashley @wealthfromrentals and he’s-
Tony:
Tony J. Robinson @tonyjrobinson.
Ashley:
Thanks guys a lot for becoming a member of us and we’ll be again on Saturday with a rookie reply.
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